This usually means police abolition and refocusing that energy on the underlining reasons people break “the law”. Like providing a minimum level of housing, income and food to all.
Do these people really believe only homeless and poor people are hurting other people?
Of course no one believes that, don’t make hyperbolic strawmen. But you can’t deny that poverty definitely drives a nontrivial percentage of crimes, and we have plenty enough resources to end poverty. Let’s do that, and the remaining actual sociopaths can stay in prison for life. (But also let’s make prison no longer a place where we torture and enslave people.)
Many conversations I’ve had with leftist here on lemmy have resulted in them claiming that all crime is either a crime of greed or poverty. No hyperbole. It’s infuriating trying to talk with some of them on these topics because they simply will not accept that there are other forms of crime or violence… No crimes of passion, etc.
That’s only for economic crime, think theft. There can only be theft out of greed or necessity. The handful of cleptomaniacs that steal for personal satisfaction are such a small percentage that it’s not worth discussing.
Anything like a crime of passion is probably murder or something along those lines. Less directly related to money.
No honest leftist I’ve ever talked to has denied that, but they’re largely not relevant to the ideas around the restructure of society. Any system is gonna have an angry spouse making horrible choices.
No true Scotsman would claim I’m making that argument because they’re full of it. I’m not claiming that those people wouldn’t be real leftists. I’m saying they aren’t real.
Crimes of greed and poverty make up the vast majority of crimes though. And hierarchical systems do a shitty job of preventing those crimes anyway (since they focus on individual punishment rather than communal restoration of justice).
I state that there are leftist who try to claim all crime is of type X. It is blatantly obvious to everyone, except apparently leftist, that crime is not all of type X. You come in and say “yeah, but bro most is type X.”
You can’t leave it alone. This isn’t a position you need to defend. Holy shit. That’s not even the worst of it… The biggest problem is that most things of type X that are the worst for society aren’t even crimes in most countries and yet you Lazer focus on the wording like it’s a magic enchantment.
Totally missing the forest for the trees.
The irony, is that on a post I made about lemmy leftist making bad arguments about crime, you replied with a leftist position and a bad argument about crime. I can’t make this up.
So, what is in your opinion the major reasonS for people committing crime? Or do you think it is evenly distributed, so you can’t properly study that stuff.
And how would you personally prevent crime?
It is the easiest thing in the world to defend the status quo by pointig out that alternatives haven’t been formulated to the most minute detail.
They won’t because they can’t. How to deal with people who aren’t nice is one of the biggest flaws in anarchist theory. Because there is no way to see whether their theory of “people will all turn into nice humans without a state” is actually true.
It’s basically an axiom of their ideology and some anarchists straight out reject all psychological or sociological theories that suggest humans aren’t naturally good.
In my experience most anarchists either just live with the fact that violence has to be accepted (I would put Stirner into that group, for example).
Or they believe in vigilante justice. So neighbours watching and judging each other. Which only works - again - if you believe the absolute majority of people will not seek to exploit or overpower each other.
Reductionist question. Ask why do violent crimes like rape or murder occur? Break down the actual causes. Okay, so mental health caused that shooting. Why did the shooter have mental health issues? Address that. It may be more connected to socio economics than anyone realizes at first glance. This is obviously a hypothetical example I’m using to illustrate my point.
Do these people really believe only homeless and poor people are hurting other people?
Of course no one believes that, don’t make hyperbolic strawmen. But you can’t deny that poverty definitely drives a nontrivial percentage of crimes, and we have plenty enough resources to end poverty. Let’s do that, and the remaining actual sociopaths can stay in prison for life. (But also let’s make prison no longer a place where we torture and enslave people.)
Many conversations I’ve had with leftist here on lemmy have resulted in them claiming that all crime is either a crime of greed or poverty. No hyperbole. It’s infuriating trying to talk with some of them on these topics because they simply will not accept that there are other forms of crime or violence… No crimes of passion, etc.
That’s only for economic crime, think theft. There can only be theft out of greed or necessity. The handful of cleptomaniacs that steal for personal satisfaction are such a small percentage that it’s not worth discussing.
Anything like a crime of passion is probably murder or something along those lines. Less directly related to money.
No honest leftist I’ve ever talked to has denied that, but they’re largely not relevant to the ideas around the restructure of society. Any system is gonna have an angry spouse making horrible choices.
Of course. No true Scotsman. Right.
No true Scotsman would claim I’m making that argument because they’re full of it. I’m not claiming that those people wouldn’t be real leftists. I’m saying they aren’t real.
Crimes of greed and poverty make up the vast majority of crimes though. And hierarchical systems do a shitty job of preventing those crimes anyway (since they focus on individual punishment rather than communal restoration of justice).
How do you not see the irony here?
Can you explain it to me? Genuine question.
I state that there are leftist who try to claim all crime is of type X. It is blatantly obvious to everyone, except apparently leftist, that crime is not all of type X. You come in and say “yeah, but bro most is type X.”
You can’t leave it alone. This isn’t a position you need to defend. Holy shit. That’s not even the worst of it… The biggest problem is that most things of type X that are the worst for society aren’t even crimes in most countries and yet you Lazer focus on the wording like it’s a magic enchantment.
Totally missing the forest for the trees.
The irony, is that on a post I made about lemmy leftist making bad arguments about crime, you replied with a leftist position and a bad argument about crime. I can’t make this up.
So, what is in your opinion the major reasonS for people committing crime? Or do you think it is evenly distributed, so you can’t properly study that stuff.
And how would you personally prevent crime?
It is the easiest thing in the world to defend the status quo by pointig out that alternatives haven’t been formulated to the most minute detail.
🤣
Forrest for the trees.
They won’t because they can’t. How to deal with people who aren’t nice is one of the biggest flaws in anarchist theory. Because there is no way to see whether their theory of “people will all turn into nice humans without a state” is actually true.
It’s basically an axiom of their ideology and some anarchists straight out reject all psychological or sociological theories that suggest humans aren’t naturally good.
In my experience most anarchists either just live with the fact that violence has to be accepted (I would put Stirner into that group, for example).
Or they believe in vigilante justice. So neighbours watching and judging each other. Which only works - again - if you believe the absolute majority of people will not seek to exploit or overpower each other.
Who will put them into prison though and run the prison if there’s no police?
Who will pay for the prison?
Prisons don’t work.
But that’s what the person I reacted to suggested:
Removed by mod
Reductionist question. Ask why do violent crimes like rape or murder occur? Break down the actual causes. Okay, so mental health caused that shooting. Why did the shooter have mental health issues? Address that. It may be more connected to socio economics than anyone realizes at first glance. This is obviously a hypothetical example I’m using to illustrate my point.
What if the reason a violent crime occurs is that the perpetrator just thinks the victim doesn’t deserve rights or isn’t even human?